0:01 Welcome to season three of Advance the Dream, our interactive community chat where we celebrate legacy makers and family heroes who are actively advancing the dream in the spirit of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. We talk about health challenges, highlights, and heroes in an intergenerational and multicultural fashion to help his legacy of hope, duty, and equality live on through this biweekly series powered by the Force for Health Network. We stream live to Facebook, YouTube, and LinkedIn at eight a.m.
0:32 Pacific time and eleven a.m. Eastern time on the first and third Saturdays of the month, then shared afterwards at advancedthedream.com, part of the Force for Health Network. We welcome your comments from any platform you are watching from to join our discussion and encourage you to connect with us by downloading our app and joining our community for free. Now let's meet our hosts, Dr. Robert Gileo and Lucy Howell from the Force for Health Network, alongside our strategic partner and national community director for The Dream, Mr. Joshua Williams.
1:08 We hope you enjoy the show. Hello, everybody. Welcome to Advance the Dream, a special series, actually, that we are kicking off. Welcome to... Actually, with a focus in education. I am joined by my partner, Joshua Williams, which I'm surprised he's having a little... Where are you at, Josh? It says I'm in the show, Lucy. Can you hear me? I can hear you, but I'm not seeing you for some strange reason. Hold on a second. I'm sorry. Okay, sure. I'm going to go ahead and remove you, and you can come back in, okay?
1:54 Oh, there we are. Yay. Good. Awesome. Okay, so if you have been with us, we have – I'm based in Tucson, Arizona. I'm the co-founder of the Force for Health Network. Usually we're joined by my partner, Dr. Robert Gillio, who has – out of the office for a couple of reasons. He'll be joining us at the bottom of the hour. And then I'm joined here with Joshua Williams, our partner, our, you know, just partner, passionate, you know, professional person who is really helping us launch this concept of advance the dream I mean he is an alpha phi alpha he comes from you know the the soul of where martin luther king really was able to um grow and show um in his early collegiate days.
2:48 And it's been amazing what you and your peers, your multi-generational peers have been able to do and bring conversation and voices to the table here. We've been, this is probably maybe our thirtieth, thirty-second show over the last few seasons. And this year you wanted to do something different. So we are coming to you live on the three platforms, Facebook, YouTube, and LinkedIn. And that is under the force for health network. But Joshua has been just mentioned my, ear for last six eight months saying we got to do something specific for education we got to do something that looks at a deep dive at not only education in general but really you know what is the state of Union within the HBC use I mean used to head the Alumni Association from Dillard you are in a Dillard alumni and And again, your peers are in leadership roles across the country.
3:51 You know, I'm not just saying that this is an alpha thing in any way, shape or form. But when we talk about advancing the dream, you know, in the spirit of Martin Luther King, and it's not just a black thing, it's not just a black man thing. It's like, it is a community, you know, issue. So that as, as This concept of DEI starts crumbling around the country. How do we all navigate these things together? So I'm so excited to have this platform. On the third week of every month, we will be hyper-focusing on education.
4:33 For such a time as this right um I've got a uh if I if I pulled up our graphic for such a time as this I love that name that you um that you offered up and it really is. Let's take a look at the state of HBCU. So we've got some folks in actually backstage already. But before we bring them on, Josh, you know, let's open up a little bit. Tell us why we see why you feel like this is such an important topic. Let me first let me first do an overview and a special thanks. to, of course, the Four for Health organization, Lucy and Dr. Rob, for actually supporting me and providing this information to the public.
5:21 It is important. It is very important in what we do as it relates to trying to continue to strengthen what Dr. Martin Luther King has already set forth for us to follow. I am so ecstatic from the standpoint that I get an opportunity now to actually further enhance this thing or this tool that we're utilizing to become better people. And that is education. So without any doubt, before I go any further, I want to make sure that Lucy, Dr. Rob, and the people who are actually being able to support this particular piece are acknowledged and they know that I am very, very thankful and grateful before we go any further.
6:02 With that in mind, of course, for such a time as this, Of course, that is a biblical reference, and we'll hear a little bit more about that as the show goes on. But I wanted to actually try and see if I could actually provide some information to the general public on the status of HBCUs, their importance, and why they mean so much to making sure that our nation grows, not just in the standpoint of black people or brown people or colored people, or white people, because we have all of those people attending HBCUs.
6:40 It's not just a Black thing, as Lucy stated. It's our thing. And we want everyone to take ownership in this piece as we try to strengthen not only just ourselves, but our community, our nation, and everyone involved. So by establishing this piece, it actually gives us an overview and we're going to bring in some people to actually talk about HBCUs, their importance, their experiences, all that good stuff so that everyone can actually get a a concrete understanding of why HBCUs were started back in the eighteen hundred, eighteen thirty seven, why the first one was started up in Pennsylvania at Cheney University.
7:25 We want to actually get that information out there because a lot of people don't know. We are hoping that this broadcast would be one of those one of those vehicles that could actually help strengthen that information and education as it relates to the importance of our educational system. And I love that you thank you for the recognition. I mean, Rob is kind of an old white guy. I won't say old. He's going to kill me for that. He's in his seventies, you know, in rural Pennsylvania. I am a part Filipino part.
8:00 You know, my dad's from white Pennsylvania. Also, I'm married, an African-American man. But advancing the dream and this whole concept of diversity, equity, and inclusion and understanding that it's okay to put focus on disparity areas. It's okay to keep looking at where there can be improvements and eradicate gaps. And so I love the conversation here because we are in like a state of flux, I believe, with DEI, ah, now what? It really does start in the home, right? It really does start with the parental and the family unit in terms of understanding and being compassionate and empathetic with cultural differences.
8:48 And so, yeah, let's go ahead and kick this off with our guest, Dr. Skip Mason. I would like you to go ahead. Did you have any extra things to say before we introduce the guest? No, I'm ready to go with Dr. Mason and Dr. Alford. OK, so I see Dr. Mason in the back. Go ahead and pull him up so that you can do a. All righty. Yeah. Dr. Skip Mason, Dr. Herman Skip Mason. This is a man that I actually met while I was in college. And I think he was probably just finishing up college. We both came through the same organization, Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity Incorporated.
9:28 Skip has been a historian. And you'll see what I'm talking about when he begins to talk. He is a sponge of information as it relates to HBCUs, as it relates to historical moments. He has served as our thirty third general president, which I had the opportunity to be appointed as one of his chairmen. of the actual national convention that came to New Orleans. So he has been a friend, he has been a mentor, He has been that individual that I have looked up to for information to support our quest as we move forward.
10:11 And without any further ado, because I know he has another meeting following this, I'd just like to introduce and bring to introduce to some people and present to others. Dr. Herman Skip Mason. Yeah. Good morning. Wonderful. Good morning. It's nice to meet you, Dr. Martin. Nice to meet you as well. Please call me Skip. I'm doing well, thank you. How are you all doing? We're doing fabulous. We are making it. We are making it. I will say congratulations. It was a little late of you being acknowledged as the president of the ITC there in Atlanta.
10:53 Well, thank you very much. It's interim president for now, but I'm honored to be at. It's my alma mater. And ITC is, of course, the consortium of seminaries in the Atlanta University Center. And it is the only theological institution which is a part of the United Negro College Fund. We were established in nineteen fifty eight. We consist of five seminaries, the United Methodist Church, the Christian Methodist Episcopal Church, the African Methodist Episcopal Church, the Church of God in Christ and the Baptist denomination.
11:28 So we have produced preachers and public servants and prophetic problem solvers and many who've gone on to be bishops and established leaders across the country. So it's an honor to be back at my my institution, my alma mater. And I'm a four-time HBCU graduate. So I've experienced HBCUs all of my entire academic life. I mean, it's the perfect jump point off. I mean, what do you feel the State of Union is for HBCUs? And why do you feel it's necessary to join conversations like this to talk about what may need to be done?
12:11 Or maybe you guys are perfect right now and you don't need any help, support. What's the State of Union? Far from that. In Dr. Frederick Patterson, who was president of Tuskegee Institute, now University, gathered some of his presidential friends, including Mary McLeod Bethune and others, and they formed the United Negro College Fund as an advocate organization to advocate for Black colleges and universities across the country. And I can imagine what these institutions would be like if we did not have the UNCF, the land grant organizations that support land grant schools, agricultural schools, and they benefit.
13:00 Students, but they're also an advocate for us in Washington, D.C. And so now the state of HBCUs is, of course, challenged by the flurry of changes taking place in Washington, D.C. with the pending removal of the Department of Education. So some things are really up in the air. But here's what I can tell you. HBCUs, Black colleges and universities have always been resilient, founded with very little out of old cabins and buildings constructed by students, bricks made by the hands of students. HBCUs historically have learned how to find a way or make it, or make one.
13:46 That's the motto of Clark Atlanta University. And so we are resilient. even though many of our institutions face severe financial challenges, the lack of equity and resources sometimes is challenged, but we're seeing an uptick. We're seeing a surge of students returning to HBCUs, and I believe that the dismantling of DEI programs is gonna bring more back to HBCUs, and we welcome them with open arms. All schools have the mission I believe to create an opportunity to educate the masses of students who desire, you know, of your judges are HBCU graduates.
14:34 About fifty percent of your lawyers and doctors have come from HBCU. So the record is unmatched. And you could just look around and you know people who are HBCU grads and they are a living, walking testimony of the importance of these institutions uh alumni must continue to support and give back to the institutions um there should be no institutions going without considering the number of alumni that have graduated and the success of these uh graduates but sometimes we don't instill the importance of giving back and supporting these institutions but the programs that are offered The skill set that helps our young men and women compete in today's world is unmatched.
15:30 And then just the environment, the cultural environment is just something. Experiencing HBCU events, activities, sports activities, homecoming events. It is just something very special, something very magical. about that experience, which makes these schools so important. And we saw that very clearly defined in the rise and the candidacy of Kamala Harris, who took her whole HBCU experience and put it on the world stage for all people who didn't know very much about it. And I loved it because not once did she ever tried to deny or hide that she went to an HBCU and that she was a member of a black sorority and all of those cultural nuances that come with that so we still got a lot of work to do and a lot of advocacy to uh to re to receive uh but I think that you know we're going to continue to do as we've always done we're going to press on uh and make a way out of no way And I feel like when you were saying some of those numbers, like,
16:42 Um, eighty percent of engineers or seventy percent of of of judges and one when I restate these numbers, please don't take them literally because my memory. But generally speaking, when you were saying those, you were meaning that seventy percent of African-American judges We're coming in, right? I may have left that important term out. Yes, that's what I meant, yes. But what I want to just amplify for everybody is that I feel like all three of us are Gen X, right? We're probably in our late forties, fifties, early sixties.
17:16 Oh, you're so kind. But I would ask you to take your glasses off, get a piece of tissue, wipe your lens so you can look closely. Now, I'll be sixty three on my next birthday. OK, so you're my husband's age. Baby, baby. Last year, baby boomer. Maybe an old gen X. But what I'm saying is that when you make those statements, I feel like you guys are really the first generation. trailblazers to come out of the HBCUs when you did and get and persevere in industries to then get to those leadership roles.
17:59 And I think people don't realize that the inequities within the African-American space is not that long ago. You know, you don't have to go More than fifty years back. Well, now it's nineteen. What? Two thousand twenty four. Fifty years ago puts us at nineteen seventy five. Right. And ten years before were the sixties. Right. And so I feel like there's a big difference if you're sixty three, sixty four, fifty eight versus if you're sixty eight, seventy eight. Well, I think that every decade created and opened up avenues and chipped at the ceiling.
18:42 My parents are graduates of Morris Brown College, my alma mater in the nineteen fifties. Okay. Their professions were somewhat limited. You were going to come out and be an educator, a teacher, or you would go on perhaps to graduate school and try to find a program. Many of the white institutions were not admitting students, particularly in the South, and those desiring to go into law had to go to other places to attempt that. But I think that You know, we've been educating. Josh mentioned eighteen thirty seven.
19:21 I mean, we've been educated. We've been creating opportunities to further advance the race, you know, and create a professional middle class group of of citizens. You know, and I think that is the beauty in nature. W.E.B. Du Bois called it the talented ten that. one tenth of the educated population would go and work to make sure that the next ten Booker T. Washington had the philosophy that we would be educated, but we would create our own. We would work with our hands and we would build and open stores and industry.
20:04 And so everyone has contributed. I mean, I'm very blessed and fortunate. My mom and dad were both the first one. Well, my mom was the first in her family. My dad followed my aunt. She was the first to go to college. And then my dad went to college. But even in the fifties, for many families, that was still quite a privilege and a luxury to My mom says that that was a whole family that when she went to college, that everybody was involved in making sure that she had the money she needed to, you know, attend college.
20:41 So, you know, now each decade, the sixties broke through as the going through the civil rights movement and opportunities were made definitely the seventies, you know, I mean, we're really seeing the expansion of black intellect into the corporate environment. and reaching new heights and new plateaus. And we stand on really, really those of us who came out of school. I graduated from college in nineteen eighty four and then went on and did all of my graduate work in the eighties. and nineties, you know, and so we really we stand on gigantic shoulders.
21:17 So much was paid for us. Things we did did not have to push through experiences that we did not have to endure in order to achieve, you know, our academic desires. And I see Dr. Alford backstage, but I don't see his picture. And when I do see his video, perhaps I'll bring him into the conversation. And then, of course, yeah, I have a question for you. You know, if you were I'm just going to bring up an image we talked about last time. And this is the image I want you to react to. And it's really in the state of this administration, right?
22:05 How can we all work together to preserve HBCUs? Do you feel like it's even possible and kind of what's your state of the union feedback within the administration right now for HBCUs? Well, you know, I feel some kind of way seeing an overlay of Dr. King's image over Trump, who is the antithesis of every absolute thing that Dr. King and those of his era during the civil rights movement have stood for. And here is one who is dismantling all of the gains and accomplishments, not just for African Americans, but for Latino Americans and other genders and groups and who has taken away Black History Month celebrations from the White House and others every year.
23:08 That was a huge Black History Month celebration. So you know, and HBCUs are included in that. We are monitoring, and UNCF has a governmental liaison department who is managing and sending us briefs daily as it relates to what is going on in Washington, with the Department of Ed because the Department of Ed manages student financial loans. Schools depend on the Department of Ed for drawdowns and payouts to take care of tuition and other aspects of that. And so we're not sure how, but we are very strong in our belief that things eventually will work out.
24:01 Uh and and that hbcus may be harmed but not totally damaged uh if you will and that cooler heads will will prevail but here's the piece When you impact the Department of Ed, you're not only impacting HBCUs, PWIs as well, all educational institutions. And for the knowledge of our viewer that doesn't know what a PWI is. Yeah, predominantly white institution as well. So this is a colorblind impact. you know, DEI, if the thoughts or thinking is that it is going after and trying to prevent Black folks, then they are mistaken in their knowledge and understanding of what DEI really means and who it represents, including women and including other ethnic groups, including those with disabilities, and including, of course, African Americans as well.
25:02 How do you respond, and I see Dr. Alford back there with the picture, not video yet, but how do you respond when President Trump makes the claim that he has provided more funding to HBCUs than any other president in history? I'm like Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett, bring me the receipts. I want to see the receipts. So even you, in your position, the information or the receipts, the evidence, is not obvious? It is not obvious to me. Now, mind you, I've only been in my position for five months. Okay.
25:46 Okay. So to be quite honest, I can't speak for what Trump did in the previous administration, his previous administration, as it benefited historic Black colleges and universities. Also, but I understand that part of his playbook and part of his language and wording is always to say he's done more than any other president. We've heard that not just for HBCUs, but in various other subjects and topics as well. Saying it and demonstrating it is another thing. If he has done more, a lot, I can't speak to that.
26:32 I'm only speaking with my knowledge of the limited time that I have been president of the institution. I love this conversation. We will continue it. I wasn't sure if you were able to stay on for the next segment. I have, I told Joshua, eleven forty five. I have a funeral. I'm a pastor as well. OK. And initially the funeral was at twelve noon. And interesting, before I spoke with Joshua last night, the family changed it to one, which was fine. That's how I'm on right now. Otherwise, I would not have been able to accept that.
27:11 But yeah, I do need to end at eleven. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and wisdom. I mean, obviously, this is a long, long conversation. Final thoughts before we enter. No, we'll let him stay until eleven forty five because I wanted him to meet Dr. Alfred. As he comes on, our fraternity brother from up at William Patterson University, who's a faculty member as well as a administrator. He chairs the master's program at William Patterson up there. He's a graduate of HBCU as well.
27:50 So we were going to talk with him a little bit to get a little bit of his appreciation and knowledge and understanding of coming from an HBCU and also going to a PWI. And Dr. Alfred, if you all would like to welcome you to the stage. Okay, awesome. And it looks like he may be coming in audio only. Hello? Oh, okay, good. You can hear us? I can hear you, but there seems to be some issue with the camera. It's on. Everything is on on my end. You always have these issues, right? You know what? As long as your picture's up and, you know, and then...
28:32 Yeah this is this is interesting so um well hello and thank you for having me uh I'm happy to be here I wish you could see my face we we can see your wonderful face and dr mason when you need to fade go ahead and leave the studio okay but thank you thank you well I just want to greet uh brother dr alfred as well yes thank you brother thank you brother mason once again and alexa hats off to you thanks very much Okay. And then, Dr. Alfred, thank you for joining us. I'll just leave your picture up, right, as you speak on these things.
29:08 So tell us a little bit about why you felt compelled to accept Josh's invitation to come and talk about, you know, kind of the state of the union of HBCUs now. And from your perspective, what you'd like to share right now. Lucy. Lucy. Yes. Because I told him. Go ahead, Dr. Alford, in your words. Yes. Well, Josh has been somewhat of a mentor for me for some time now, and I've admired the work of Dr. Mason and the work that he's done on history and being a historian. But the reason why I chose this opportunity, because I wanted to actually speak to the issues that you all are raising in regards to the work on DEI, but as well as the work that historically black colleges and universities have done.
30:03 You know, we often look at this work as deficit model work, but the work that HBCUs have done has been extraordinary. And I think Dr. Mason touched on this. He kind of gave us a really good timeline about those trailblazers and pioneers of the HBCU movement. And when we think about Mary McLeod, when we think about Du Bois and we think about Washington and the work that they've done to advance HBCUs, not only do we see them as opening doors or making a way out of no way is a term that was used earlier.
30:44 What we really don't realize is that those individuals were the first group of educators to train the first group of civil rights activists. And when we think about the work that they did in the night between nineteen twenty and nineteen forty, those individuals who were educated at Lincoln, at Strait College, Fisk, those individuals train those people who would then come about in the fifties, sixties and seventies, who would then fight for the rights of Black people in a very different way. So this work is just not isolated, but it's built on the history.
31:26 And all the contributions that those forefathers and foremothers put in place for us at these HBCUs, like, you know, we've said Miriam McLeod-Bacoon, but so many others. So the importance of going to these institutions is to carry on the legacy, to make sure that we don't just rest on what they have done, but that we build on it and we continue to build on it so that HBCUs will be around for another two hundred years. Well, how do you feel in two thousand twenty five on the State of the Union?
32:03 What do you guys need? I'm sure it's money because it always is. But, you know, what are some of the avenues that we can really put some pressure on some folks to start moving the needle if it is something so important to preserve? I think that's a really good question and one that many scholars in the field kind of shy away from. because it becomes a criticism. But I'm gonna turn this criticism into something that is different. And as we talk about the benefits, in order to benefit from this experiment of an HBCU that has proven itself to be worthwhile and that has proven itself to be everything that those founders thought it would be in uplifting a race, the criticism is this, if we are, to see another hundred and fifty to two hundred years, we're going to have to examine leadership and we're going to have to examine leadership in a very meaningful and intentional way.
33:06 Now, what does that mean when we say examine leadership? I am talking about those individuals who have been entrusted to be the caretakers of our institutions, such as those boards of trustees and those presidencies, right? Those individuals are going to have to take a hard look at themselves and make sure that they, and before they take on these huge responsibilities, that they are prepared to be open-minded, that they are prepared to do the work, And that they are prepared to understand the greater needs that have evolved.
33:39 You know, we're not where we were in the nineteen twenties. We're in the nineteen. We're in twenty twenty five. So what does a twenty twenty five HBCU look like? In in the in light of this current administration. Right. And we think, oh, we're going to have him for four years and then we could go back to normalcy. We know nothing ever goes back to normalcy. So how do we manage support and advance the mission of our HBCUs in an anti-DEI climate? How do we do that? And I think right now there's an attack on education.
34:21 So then the first thought on everything is to educate people to be better citizens, right? Well, that's not working. That's probably not going to work because of the attack on funding to HBCUs and minority serving institutions. Well, I do think that the start of being a more empathetic and literate citizen starts in the home. I do think that education, higher education as a whole, right, as HBCUs or as a subset of the whole higher ed space. And so I almost feel like you've got a tsunami of different, it's like a, what do you call it?
35:05 A triple storm, a quadruple storm that's happening for not only higher ed, but the HBCUs. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt there. But part of me, you know, what I'm trying to remind people is as DEI dismantles, right, under governmental administration, that doesn't mean that we as citizens should stop talking about it or practicing it or, you know, starting in the home, just being more kind and understanding and culturally empathetic. Anyways, I think the cost of higher ed is really being questioned, you know, at the same time of the specific struggles of the HBCUs.
35:52 Yes, I think you're right. And to your point, now is the time to do even greater work with DEI and inclusion. And I think the places to do it, so going back to the topic of the benefit of HBCUs, those spaces will always embrace DEI work. Right, it's embedded. So the benefit now to being a part of the HBCU community is if you have, if the idea of DEI work has been halted or stopped at many of these public state institutions that are now afraid of what's gonna happen, the benefit is go right to the HBCUs who will welcome the conversations, who will hire people from different religious, ethnic, ability areas.
36:52 Those are the new, what we call safe spaces, because in these spaces, not only will black students be able to thrive, but students from all walks of life will be able to enter into their gates and learn in spaces and from individuals who will never stop talking dei talk who will always look like whatever the our nation is telling us not to look like and sound like so and for the benefit of the public you know um uh I am not a chief medical officer my partner is a chief medical officer I really represent kind of the mainstream mom out there in the US.
37:38 Maybe a B plus in everything, but not an A in anything. So I'm just going to ask a couple of quick questions. For an HBCU, can I be a white person or Mexican, Filipino, and go to an HBCU? Well, absolutely. The first HBCUs that were founded from I know we talked about eighteen thirty seven with the Institute of Colored Youth. And but at Lincoln, at Fisk, at many of these HBCUs, white students were educated alongside black students from their initial founding because those white presidents and those white faculty members educated their children.
38:20 Talk about DEI. You can't get their children alongside those Black students. So we, you know, history is what it is. And we, you know, we sometimes forget about these things that happen because they're not constantly in our social media cycles and feeds every day. But the initial HBCUs or the founding of HBCUs were inclusive from their nature, you know, taking cues from schools like Oberlin, University of Chicago, who had already integrated their schools. There was never a time in the history of HBCU's missions that they ever excluded.
39:00 It was always to provide education for all who entered their gates. And I think, I don't know if you're listening to Dr. Mason's portion on just the expansion, like generationally, his parents went through the HBCUs, but professionally they didn't have as many opportunities as perhaps the second generation that went through the HBCUs that now are sitting in judges' seats and presidential seats, et cetera, right? So I feel like, to me, from an outsider looking in, I think one of the huge, huge, huge value points of the HBCUs is not only an education with cultural empathy and celebration, right?
39:41 And it's embraced and allowed, but to be able to be part of a network now that can reach down and support and place like that's never really been as strong in the history before, you know, and the more I work with Josh and the more I see how close, you know, just being part of the Divine Nine, you know, especially if you're Divine Nine from an HBCU, I mean, it's just, it's crazy the quality of network, alumni network that the HBCs represent. I'm just throwing that out there is because from an outsider, that's where I see a huge, huge, huge upside that the other institutions might not have as strong for the advancement of minorities.
40:31 Yeah, I think that's one of the hidden gems of being a part of an HBCU, particularly for those people who don't know much about the work that HBCUs offer. It is amazing to enter into a corporate room or an educational setting and to see people look at us and go, how do you know this person? Or, you know, I don't understand, like you all went to two different schools and it's that quiet space Yes. The idea of, well, we both went to HBCU, so we were educated. We have something in common. And I think because that is almost like a hidden language that no one else knows we speak, the HBCU vocabulary of understanding each other.
41:21 Is an amazing benefit. And the friendships that have come about and the support, you know, I have nieces who, I have a niece that's gone to Hampton. I went to Dillard University, but there's always that idea of saying, you know, Dillard may not have this major, but we're going to support another HBCU who has what you're looking for. And creating those those networking opportunities to say, okay, you know, I'm in education, I'm a professor. Okay. How can I help your niece? How can I help your son get access to these, the resources at an HBCU?
41:59 Uh, it's been, and many of my writing opportunities and publications have been because I have established relationships with other members of the HBCU community who's interested in doing the work that I'm doing. Um, I will say this one thing that a lot of people don't know about the history. You talk about networking. The original networking with HBCUs started during the nineteen thirties, forties and fifties, when many of these black educated folk who graduated from HBCUs in the South were not allowed to attend these wonderful graduate programs in the South.
42:36 And because of segregation, their states paid for them to attend these extraordinarily great ivy league institutions like columbia and harvard and university of chicago so every summer a network a group of black folks from fisk from dillard from xavia they would travel to columbia nyu and university of chicago every summer to be educated and many of them gained their their their graduate credentials because they were because because of segregation in the South. But it was a network. And as they graduated and finished their education, many of them settled in the Northeast and created their own enclaves of education where they were able to thrive in these middle class to upper middle class communities and educate their children and their families very differently.
43:31 But that was due to that network, that HBCU network. Yes. What they used to call the three-two program. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. And Dr. Callie Waite writes a lot about this in her work. Really interesting reading about it. And you guys both came from Dillard or alumni of Dillard. And then Dr. Alford, you are at William Peterson. I'm at William Patterson University. Patterson, I'm sorry. Which would be designated as a PWI, right? Yes. I'm still new to these terms. Yeah, totally. So William Patterson is both a PWI, which is a predominantly white institution, as well as an MSI, which is a minority serving institution.
44:18 What's the difference between an HBCU, a PWI, and what the last distinction that you just said? and you know that's that's a really good question we just assume that people know yes no we don't and then there's tribal colleges too so we don't want to forget that our sisters and brothers who attend the tribal colleges but the hbcus of course are historically black colleges and universities and within the hbcu system there's another There's the UNCF schools and then there are the Thurgood Marshall schools.
44:47 The UNCF schools are pretty much those private institutions who have come together through. And I think Dr. Mason talked about what happened in nineteen forty four with Patterson forming this UNCF network. there and then under, but so HBCUs, you know, although there's like a hundred, ninety-nine to a hundred of them, they're classified as UNCF schools, Thurgood Marshall schools or eighteen ninety schools. So that's one. Then the predominantly white institutions or traditionally white institutions are just institutions that were initially founded to educate white males, right, which would be pretty much the LSUs, the University of Texas, those schools that have traditionally had white student populations.
45:35 MSIs are student, just not HB. These are schools that were already founded But over time, their population has reached a certain number of students from other diverse backgrounds, maybe, you know, Latinx communities, Black communities. And so it's not just because remember, the definition of HBCU is from saying that you have to be founded before in nineteen sixty five. That's why I was thinking that there was a date distinction play in there. Nineteen sixty five. Got it. There's a date distinction for a federal.
46:13 It's said by the federal government saying that designation designation. Right. So then there's HSIs, Hispanic serving institutions. And what HSIs mean is that at least twenty five percent or more of your student population has a Hispanic or Latinx student. Like I believe the University of Arizona is a Hispanic serving institution. It is. Yeah. I just think it's important when we throw this out that, because we're trying to educate and bring awareness to the general public. I think that the general public is the only way we can talk about disparities because everybody talks in their silos.
46:52 And if you're only talking to your like people, then we're never going to cross pollinate and be able to, get along, so to speak, in advance together. Question for you. So with your perspective from a PWI standpoint, HBCU standpoint, and again, I don't know, I haven't done my research on this. I'm curious to get what your perspective is. Are HBCUs more dependent on, are the students going to HBCUs more dependent on grants and financial aid than the general public going into your programs? standard PWI or your regular institution?
47:30 Is there a disproportionate dependency on financial aid going into HBCUs or not really? You know, I'm careful in answering that question because my initial response to that is it depends on the HBCU that the student you know has applied to because when we you know not all the black community is such a diverse community and you're having students come from you know different socioeconomic backgrounds and so their their needs their financial needs will will vary got it but what I will say to that is is that perhaps we've seen a greater need for many students.
48:29 We've seen a greater financial need for most students. I mean, when we think about student loans and Pell Grants, Black students aren't the largest recipients of those social and those government-assisted programs, right? We can't be for the mere fact that we don't make up the population. Exactly. And can we just say that out loud? I mean, African-American, I think it's about a thirteen, fourteen percent, right, across the country. Yeah. So you so it's a complicated, very nuanced answer to if you look at a school like William Patterson, which I am, the need base of students is very high.
49:05 So but if you look at a school like Columbia where there's a different population of students, you know, it's very different. So I think that we have to be careful in categorizing, you know, ourselves that way and think more about is education a right and should students, you know, no matter what your socioeconomic background be, should we make a way for every student to have access to higher education for the greater good? And right now we're seeing an attack on these these these things. And, you know, there's also reports that This particular administration is intending on taxing scholarships in grant money.
49:57 I heard. That's crazy. As a mother of a D-I athlete scholarship winner, if we were taxed on a two hundred and fifty thousand dollar scholarship, that is crazy. It would be so detrimental. I mean, it basically negates the whole point of the scholarship because you're trying to serve folks that, you know, can't write a forty thousand dollar check. I mean, come on. But the but but the intention of this current administration is to punish and penalize those people who they think benefit the most from these scholarships.
50:32 Right. In their mind, they're saying, well, the people who need these scholarships the most are people from anarchized or marginalized communities. So how do we further, how do we further penalize them or oppress them so that they're not able to participate in higher education? So one of the benefits I think that we can we can look at here is that we do have the UNCF fund. We do have the Thurgood Marshall Fund that is there to assist students whenever there is a financial gap for them. And those those foundations are so important to us and they have done extraordinary work in helping our students get access to education.
51:21 You know, Josh, we're rounding out the hour. And of course, just so much. This could be a six hour long marathon broadcast as far as I'm concerned. But, you know, I think for the last question here and let's just bring it into reality. I mean, let's go straight to when you were head of the Alumni Association for Dillard. You were right there trying to solve for funding gaps, like to better support the nursing program, right? Which was, I think, the first official nursing program within the HBCU college system.
51:57 Well, what's the pain of those directors of alumni? And what do you feel like you'd like to leave us contemplating here until next time? As Dr. Alpha has stated, I want to go back to the question you asked him because my best answer to that is to give you from a standpoint of experience. When I came to Dillard, I came from one of those small country towns where I had a scholarship to Florida A&M, to Florida State, to Alabama, but I chose to go to Dillard. Number one, I thought that by going to Dillard, I had a better opportunity to meet some of the people who kinda was more nurturing to me than just being a number in a classroom at a bigger institution.
52:53 As well, the cost was not the same. You know, right along with the cause being a little different, right along with knowing some of the people that were there at Dillard, one quote unquote relationships, what Dr. Alfred just thought about. That was very, very important in my decision to go to an HBCU. And when I got there, you know, it wasn't so much about the money was definitely the difference in tuition was definitely a challenge. But meaning it was expensive or less expensive. I just don't know what you're saying there.
53:30 Well an hbcu a small hbcu like that you're talking about almost this once you put in out of if they're charging out of state fees in-state fees uh that stuff kind of raises up but it's actually cheaper than the big pwi I was talking about going to and they didn't give me as much financial aid as I got by going to an hbcu so all of those differences played a part into decision making as it relates to uh how I was going to go and what I was going to go and do. Being at Dillard, The relationships that I've formed at Dillard helped me to be where I am today, without a doubt.
54:09 They really have. I mean, you've got everybody within your alpha and your Dillard and Louisiana right there, that core group. Yeah, I definitely stand on that because I wouldn't be nowhere. The information that I have received, the information I have learned, the people that I've been associated with from there has been absolutely outstanding. And lifelong. And lifelong. And lifelong. And can I add this to that? Josh, bring up a good point. Had it not been for Dillard, I would not have been able to succeed and do well at Columbia University, which is a very different environment.
54:46 It was a culture shock, right? It was an Ivy League institution. Sometimes we suffer from imposter syndrome. We don't think that we belong there. People will tell you that you got in on affirmative action and all of these types of things are there. But Dillard gave me the foundational tools that I needed to succeed. And not only did I feel, Dillard's motto is Expedia Fortis, from confidence, courage. It gave me the confidence and courage I needed to go out and not only do well, but compete at the highest level.
55:21 And I was often told, you know, when I went to do my work on HBCUs, they said, oh, no, we're not preparing you to do research on institutions like that. This is a research one. But I stuck to the foundation of Dillard. This is what Dillard trained me to do. And I wanted to go back into those types of communities and be a part of that talented team. So I thank Dillard every day for this education because I would not be here had it not been for Dillard. Well, like we said, and like we continue to say, the fight lives on advancing the dream and extending the legacy and the intention and objectives of this generation of Martin Luther King's generation.
56:08 Through the families, through to the next generation is what we are here for. You know, whether or not higher education shakes out to what it's going to be, you know, moving forward all the way across the board. I just think I think that there's going to be some dishevelment there for everybody, not just HBCUs. But it's interesting that the takeaway from this conversation to me is that it almost the dismantling of DEI almost serves to the favor. To me, I feel like it does serve to the favor of the HBCUs because it's almost like home.
56:46 If I'm an African-American student and I feel like I'm not going to get what I feel like I need, The easy and safe decision seems to be, hey, I'm going to go find HBCU because that's like should be an accelerating family network and support experience. That's what I feel. But that had already started to occur. during, um, twenty twenty two and twenty twenty one during this black, the Black Lives Matter movement and many other things that were happening that was racially motivated in the country.
57:23 If you go back and look at the National Center for Education Statistics, it will show you that enrollment at HBCUs had a steady increase from twenty two to twenty five record breaking numbers at schools like Howard. OK, I mean, interesting. So social justice can push. Yes. Exactly. Final, final thoughts going around the table. I'll give it to you, Dr. Alfred. Well, first of all, let me just say thank you again. And, you know, thank you, Josh, for, and you too, as well, Lucy, for creating a platform for us to have this conversation and also allowing other voices to come to the table to talk about this rather than the same voices, right?
58:10 Because we need to make room for everyone to have this important conversation. But my final thought on this is to not give up. HBCUs have weathered much worse than this. There's been World War I, World War II, Great Depressions, and they are still standing So we have to think about that. I think Dr. Mason would want me to say that we need to contribute to these HBCUs, make sure we give back financially, put them in your wills, make them a part of your estate plan, you know, make sure that you join your associations.
58:46 What I would say is that we need to start thinking about training the next generation of HBCU leaders and making sure that they are prepared to do this work in a much stressful environment. And I know there are several institutes out there that is trying to do this work, but we also need to be more intentional about who we put on our boards of trustees so that they are prepared to do the work and understand the needs of these HBCUs. So I'm more concerned with leadership because without good leadership, we're not gonna make it.
59:21 Long gone are those great presidents like the W.E.B. Du Bois, I mean, sorry, Samuel Du Bois Cooks and Norman Francis. Those were extraordinary leaders. Harvey, Dr. Harvey at Hampton, Xavier's, Norman Francis and Dr. Cook. We need to find leadership like that again to usher us into our highest potential. So I'll end there with just focusing on leadership. I love it. Dr. Alpha, that is so true. And I'll copy him, Lucy, on that piece. Because serving on the boards, you get an opportunity to understand who you're dealing with, who's there in your presence, and what they actually stand for.
1:00:11 And that is a very, very, very important part that Dr. Alpha has just leaped on about finding the right people to fit your board of directors who understands the direction, to understand what the past presidents did, Dr. Norman Francis, Cook, Dr. Cook, all of these great leaders that we had at these HBCUs, understand why they lasted so long. and why the university did such a good job during that time. We have to concentrate. And I think that's the institute, Dr. Alford, that's a part of my study that I'm doing right now in the PhD program that I'm glad that we kind of had an opportunity to lean a little information to.
1:00:59 And we're going to come back and have another session directly on the leadership. on these HBCUs and how that leadership affects the direction of the university. So I'm glad that you had an opportunity to share with us that you and Dr. Mason on this first platform of education, I really appreciate it. And I just wanna thank you guys because you gave me a lot of information to ponder on. I have a student that's dictating some of this, of course, in a different language for other students. So as we go through this, sometimes I have to talk on the phone a little bit and say certain things over again.
1:01:42 But I am so pleased at the opportunity to be able to present some of this information to our community and people that have the same vision as we do. Thanks again, man. Thank you. And on that note, one of the big reasons why we've decided to launch this brand, this channel, this community with Josh as our national lead here is the power to connect and collaborate and contribute and celebrate. cannot happen in quarterly Zoom meetings or monthly Zoom meetings that you don't know people on. So, you know, Advance the Dream is an online community supported by the Force for Health Network.
1:02:30 It has access to a health academy. You can join for free and connect. We invite you, Dr. Alfred and Dr. Mason, when he comes back to join as mentors, to join as advisors to this group so that we can start connecting and then carrying on the momentum of these wonderful conversations. Okay, so that's kind of my takeaway is let's connect. and then let's start contributing and then going from there. But always with a health focus first, because if you don't take care of your own health, then the ability to serve, you know, and grow and be is at risk.
1:03:12 And so the mental health, I mean, the health disparities will kind of lead some of these initiatives that we've got going on at Advance the Dream. So we invite you to join over there. Of course, we invite you Dr. Alford as a advisor over to the Advance the Dream and we'll get you some information about that a little bit later. Other than that, thank you so much for joining us. It's been a wonderful kickoff start to this educational series that we've got going on here. Josh, thank you. I mean, the fact that you can bring HBCU educational leaders and again, expanding beyond that as well to really take a deeper dive into this thing called higher ed and how we can preserve the sanctity and the importance and the critical significance of the historic Black colleges for the many reasons we talked about today and continue to talk and see if we can push through navigating a very interesting environment that we have right now.
1:04:18 Merit, DEI, cultural empathy. Those are kind of like the things that are the words that I'm throwing out for people to just chew on and ponder. Okay. So until, so in the, in, Our next show, we'll kind of revert back to more of a focus on health and family heroes and highlights. And that'll be the first Saturday of the month. So until then, take care, everybody. Have a wonderful Saturday. Get out there. Be a force for health. Learn, live, share. And remember that you do matter. One of Josh's nonprofit clubs that he serves multi-generational tech and educational clubs for.
1:05:04 And remember to just advance the dream. Okay. Take the pledge, advance the dream. If you see something, say something until next time. Take care. All right.
Transcript is auto-generated from the broadcast captions and lightly cleaned; timestamps jump to the moment on YouTube.
Advance the Dream · Episode Recap ·